What to do when you experience someone glitching/griefing?

  • Upon request from WhiskeyPunisher I have decided to create a little thread explaining what we expect in terms of evidence when you want to report a suspected griefer/glitcher.

    First of all, let's understand what a griefer/glitcher is: "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways"


    When it comes to the DayZ Village Server that would in most cases be the fact that some players abuse the persistent lifetime of items in the environment to make them de-spawn quicker. They do this by dropping items out from tents so they de-spawn after ~30 minutes (dependent on the item dropped) rather than being 'saved' by the storage container's persistence. In other cases it's people using unintended ways to gain access to a compound/base by glitching through solid objects.

    With this said, please be aware that it is allowed to drop items out a persistent container in order to take it (eg. drop items out a barrel so you can take it for yourself). We ask not to overdo it though. If we see video footage of several tents where items are just dropped on the ground and the tents themselves are just laying on the ground packed, then that would be considered griefing. All-in-all just be considerate to other players. If you have the choice between emptying out a tent with 2 sticks in, or the tent with 20 guns, choose the god damn tent with 2 sticks.

    Now, let's have a look at what we expect/need in order to be able to act on a suspected griefer/glitcher on the server.

    Reporting a player for griefing/glitching is no easy task as we, after some unfortunate situations, have decided to up the required information before we act. This is because innocent people have been banned in the past because of personal grudges between community members. All of these bans and unbans puts even more pressure on the server admin and is very frustrating for the innocent community member.


    The very minimum a glitching/griefing report needs is the following:

    - Your in-game name
    - Time of the occurrence in GMT/GMT + 1 (as exact as possible)

    - Video proof showing the violation (with audio + time-stamps)

    - ID from the glitcher/griefer (either check pulse, give/receive damage)

    Please note that we require the video to show the actual violation. A video of you walking through your de-spawned base after it has happened won't get anyone banned unfortunately. However, if the video shows the actual player glitching through the tent itself and then either give/take damage to/from the player, then you have solid proof of the event and that player clearly, without a doubt glitched through the tent and therefore exploiting the game.

    And last but not least, please remember that these glitching/griefing reports can be very hard to justify without proper proof. This is why we ask for so much information from community members in regards to this. Always try to make it as clear as day who the bad guy is. That way it will be easier for us to act accordingly, and get rid of the actual people who did the wrong-doing.

    Please let me know if there's something that is unclear and I will try to add/rephrase it, thanks. :)

  • I think this is a very good way to start looking for a solution for this matter.


    However, I would like to add some personal observations to demonstrate the enormous difficulty (not to say impossibility) to reliably prove this kind of behavior even with video evidence and how this ends up preventing glitchers / griefers from being banned from the server. I will list those observations just for greater organization and I hope that the ironies used in the examples below are not understood in a negative way. My intention is simply to reach a common point in this topic.



    Griefers, glitchers and griefers/glitchers: Put it in simple words, as the OP said, a griefer its someone who just troll and irritates other people. Related to the bases and settlement, we should understand that a Griefer is someone who constant despawn things (Tents, settlements...) just to make people angry and without any real in-game prurpose or server participation. So, the things mods need in order to be able to act on a suspected griefer/glitcher on the server are clear and of course are very reasonable, but let's take this to the practical field with some examples.




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    Case 1

    (Griefer, not glitcher)

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    Lets consider here a griefer that do not use glitchs to get inside a base. The base its open to public (like The Village in the past) and anyone can get inside without the need of glitch in. To really prove this guy is a griefer you would need to:


    • Catch the guy a good number of times (because one, two or tree despawning do not make you a griefer, only makes you a guy that had a bad day) since unpacking tents or throwing the ítems to the ground to despawn is not something punishable per se (With which I think we all agree that it should not be punishable).
    • Get his ID in every occasion (By check pulse or damages and assuming that this person not only knows the rule of the name changing but also, for some reason, he decided to follow it. I know you can track IP and GUID, but likewise he would have to be captured several times, by several people and all those times with some footage)
    • Catch the guy in the act of despawning. Of course not before because it would be useless and not 10 seconds after because he could argue that the tent was already on the ground and there is no way to prove the opposite if you didn´t record the guy in the act.
    • The guys should also be well known in the community (forum participation, discord, etc.) to really agree he is a griefer.


    As you can see, the probative difficulty is ridiculously impossible.





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    Case 2

    (Griefer / Glitcher)

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    Now lets take the case of a griefer / glitcher. You only need to glitch inside a closed place (or do some other kind of harmful glitch) once to be banned from the server so it should be easier to prove, report and ban. Its not like if you are just a griefer where you need to be catch in the act several times to really become one.


    This griefer / glitcher called “Little Sam”, logs at 5am close to "The Hospital" (a new closed settlement with lots of tents and medical supplies). Around 10 guys in the server and only 1 guy called Tyler Durden doing some night watch inside the place just in case any griefer / glitcher tries to get in as it happened each and every one of the previous nights. Little Sam logs, glitchs through a military tent, get inside the hospital and got killed by Tyler Durden that heard the steps and knew that no other friendly was connected there inside. Tyler killed the guy with a shotgun, so he could rush and check the pulse. All in video.


    Now lets see whats he actually needs to be able to report and get this guy banned:

    • Of course he needs to be awake, recording and dedicated to cover the possible places where they can glitch in.
    • It is not enough just to kill “Little Sam” iside the base and get his ID knowing that there is no way to enter without glitching because Sam can argue that:
      • 1) There is no video proof that him actually glitch in. We can not assume that he did it.
      • 2) He didn´t glitch in. He just log out (or crashed) inside there because the day before another guy let him in to give him some morphine. You can tell because there is no tent in the floor.
      • 3) If there was a tent in the floor, he can argue that it was unpacked before he entered the base. He just saw the place open and decide to check.
      • 4) His intention was only to enter the place to ensure that no one was stealing because he saw the tent unpacked (and incidentally take some medical supplies just in case).
    • So what Tyler really needs in this case to be able to do something could be:
      • 1) The video of Sam going through one of the tents walls (good angle too) at a distance where the tent renders but without he seeing or hearing him.
      • 2) Tyler should not shout him to stop, shoot or do anything until Sam finishes his glitching (because we can not punish the attempt or if someone just had a certain incident with a zed).
      • 3) He needs to wait until Sam despawn the tent or tents, get inside the base and then take the risk to kill or be killed by Sam (and in this last scenario, probably loose the rest of the tents before he respawn and go back to The Hospital).
      • 4) Just then, he could get get some decent report video on the guy to finally see how this person probably argued in an unban form that it was just an accident (I do not want to give details but I think we all know what kind of glitching I mean), that he had to unpack the tent to get out of there (inside the tent) and that he shot Tyler because he saw someone inside pointing his gun at him.


    Again, almost impossible to reproduce such a gross situation.




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    I repeat, I do not intend to make from this a big deal. Possibly its just a temporary thing and these guys eventually get bored and everything becomes a little more enjoyable. But having this type of discussion is always good to get something positive ideas for future experiences.






  • I agree with Karrigan. The level of difficulty to catch these guys correctly and get them punished and off our server is insane. Like he said, almost impossible. I don't have any experience Moderating or anything like that so I honestly have no ideas to throw into the pool, but what I do know is, ALOT of regulars on this server are gonna get mad and quit playing it for awhile eventually if this continues. We don't want that. None of us do.

    "Kill one man; you're a murderer,
    Kill 10,000 men; you're a psychopath,
    but kill them all?....oh, then you're a God"

    JORDAN

  • Are we essentially trying to solve a problem with very little tools to do the job with? Would a spectator camera for admins help? Or more detailed logs? Is this something the DayZ devs could easily minimize in future patches?

    Spectator mode and more detailed logs that are reliable would go a long way in helping with this issue.

  • I get your point Karrigan but the examples you're mentioning (although a little sarcastic) is the exact reason we ask for so much information. There's a big gray area when it comes to these types of reports and we do not want to ban innocent people. What if the person who was inside the camp didn't do anything wrong at all? Is that fair just to permanently ban him for something he did not do? No, it's not. And that's why we ask for so much information. If we had better logs and overall admin tools this wouldn't be a problem, but this is DayZ and we're very limited when it comes to this kind of stuff. I get your frustration, and no matter how much we discuss this you will never understand it fully until you, or one of your friends, are wrongfully banned for glitching/griefing.

    We're always up for suggestions to a possible fix for these kind of situations. I have one myself but I will take that one up internally rather than on here. If you have any better way of getting rid of glitcher/griefers without banning innocent community members, please let us know. Telling us how hard it is to get the required information is no news to us and I am a DayZ player myself with around 3000 hours in-game. I know how hard it is to get the information we ask for. (I even specify this in the post).

  • I get your point Karrigan but the examples you're mentioning (although a little sarcastic) is the exact reason we ask for so much information. There's a big gray area when it comes to these types of reports and we do not want to ban innocent people. What if the person who was inside the camp didn't do anything wrong at all? Is that fair just to permanently ban him for something he did not do? No, it's not. And that's why we ask for so much information. If we had better logs and overall admin tools this wouldn't be a problem, but this is DayZ and we're very limited when it comes to this kind of stuff. I get your frustration, and no matter how much we discuss this you will never understand it fully until you, or one of your friends, are wrongfully banned for glitching/griefing.

    We're always up for suggestions to a possible fix for these kind of situations. I have one myself but I will take that one up internally rather than on here. If you have any better way of getting rid of glitcher/griefers without banning innocent community members, please let us know. Telling us how hard it is to get the required information is no news to us and I am a DayZ player myself with around 3000 hours in-game. I know how hard it is to get the information we ask for. (I even specify this in the post).


    Even with the ironies in the examples (To witch i expressly reffered in the first words of my response to this thread), this kind of situations do not get to far away from things that have actually happened (and I think we both know that this is true). I think I was pretty clear by mentioning again and again the huge degree of difficulty in proving this type of situation and the enormous limitations that admins/mods have in order to not punish inocent people and catch the true griefers / glitchers.


    I repeat, I sed that in each and every one of the answers that i made about this topic and even in a private message that I had with you when i remember saying somethin like: "the think shouldn´t be believen in some player or report without evidence, its to really knowing whats really happens what its matters". By this I mean that: NO, the solution is not to ban as many people as possible. NO, the solution is not to believe some user words without proper evidence. And ... NO, I do not want to see innocent users banned.


    Having said that, im not just telling you guys how hard is to get the info or acting like a child who is having a tantrum without giving any kind of solution. Of course i have a possible fix and solution acording to the server spirit (No whitelisted, no restrictive rules and more focus on the in-game solutions than in the admin/mods activity). But once again, I was clear in the post "What is happening" when i ask that the posible solutions should not bein discussed in that post because i think first we must agree on the diagnosis.


    I hope I have expressed myself correctly, I know that many times the words used and the forms determine a certain tone and that can lead to confusion.




  • I have 10 years experience as a server admin from front line dealing with aggressive and racist pricks to behind the scenes handling ban requests and appeals whilst analyzing reams of server (DAYZ MOD) logs for snippets of evidence. Your requested methods will certainly lighten your ban work load but that's all I will say on the matter.

    Next, and as frank as this may read PLEASE DO NOT take it:
    1) literally,
    2) as an instruction how to admin,
    3) as advice how to move forward,
    4) include anyone i associate with as having the same opinion BUT

    BAN ALL CUNTS, BECAUSE TOMORROW THERE WILL BE A NEW CUNT TO TAKE THE REIGNS.

    Stand by your decisions and beliefs and don't deviate from them.

    THE QUEEN'S GUARD
    Status: Unknown
    Armbands: Black
    Frequency: 91.9
    Strength in teamwork. Pride and trust in each other. To war, we go...

    The post was edited 1 time, last by TrojanWarrior ().

  • The essence of what he said is in the last sentence ''Stand by your decisions and beliefs and don't deviate from them.'' With that being said tacticus keep up the good work, there will always be people that bark, complain, etc. It's imposiblu to make everybody happy.

    I highly doubt that was the point of that sentence.

  • There is little tools and banning process will never be perfect at this state. On other community severs I've played with safe zones/safe days rules they simply ban people after trusted member report backed with log proof. They see in logs player got killed they trust it was against the rules (kos or safe zone). And even like this it's hard work for admins and not pefrect. I'm not advertising this solution in any way because it isn't in line with our server idea.


    Maybe making a rule that simply breaking into properly secured bases would make you tempbanned?


    Considering what Karrigan wrote. You kill a unwanted guest at your base. It doesn't matter if they glitched in or not. Provide video (or even screenshot proof of the name). Logs can be checked that the kill actually occured. Rest is based on trusting the person who is reporting haven't let them inside willingly or just KOSed them in the field.

    Certainly not a perfect solution but this could keep people from attacking/despawning bases daily.

  • doomed to failure.

    I mean... I understand that there has most definitely been problems with certain people on the server ruining the experience for everybody else, but.... I think we all have to remember how much of a success it really has been if you think about it. What other open server have you ever seen create something like the Settlement? I mean it has required serious focus and work from the Settlers to be able to pull off.

    In terms of rules; The Village is really not all that much different from your average DayZ server. There's not a lot of rules that limit a player to do anything. We've put in some unconventional ones (such as no 3rd party voice comms etc), but other than it's generally the same. All-in-all I would say it has been a massive success with some big obstacles along the way. We need to work together to make those obstacles easier to overcome in the future (reporting glitchers, griefers and so forth). I think "doomed to failure" is a strong word choice considering how well we are doing. We've made this server what it is today together, let's not ruin that because of some glitchers/griefers. :)

    - TikTac'


  • It wasn't suppose to be a criticism TikTac'

    I think you're doing great considering what tools you have in disposal and with constant flow of abusers.


    I'm just concerned at some point your efforts will be in vain. Let's not forget staff deservers to have fun too.

    If you or too many players get discouraged community can go to hell pretty fast. Been there many times.


    I'm just saying having some ways of swifter justice (like Karrigan suggested) would help with that. Worth considering. That's all.

  • I understand Ghipa . My response wasn't meant as a response to criticism. :)